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Compensation for Boot.ini errors!!!

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Dr Paithos Minmatar Republic Deep Space Institute	Posted - 2007.12.06 20:33:00 - [1] Argh see I agree with everything you say except your demand for compensation If you actually have consequential losses you might actually have an argument under UK law OH GOD HERE COME THE INTERNET LAWYERS /o\ Oh and I'm sure your "CCP's reputation" thing is going to get flamed too, CCP already have a reputation for making a very entertaining, fascinating, fairly buggy niche game and this changes nothing. CCP have never given compensation so far afaik and aren't likely to start now. Would a day of game time really make you feel better? Would a hug help? Originally by: RedFall How dare you try to argue my point with your so called "evidence". I don't need any, I have truthiness on my side.
Dr Paithos Minmatar Republic Deep Space Institute	Posted - 2007.12.06 20:35:00 - [2] Originally by: Andrue Originally by: vextorious Edited by: vextorious on 06/12/2007 20:22:04 Compensation for damages is a fact of life. Yes and you get an amount equivalent to what you lost. If your home computer has been out of action for half a day you will get..nothing. Not unless you work from home and can prove that your livelihood depended on it. If you chose to pay someone to fix the problem when it wasn't necessary then you won't get that back either. The legal system in most countries is not a blank cheque that hands out money just to make you feel better. It is there to ensure that you are not significantly out of pocket when you have been wronged. The financial cost of a home computer being out of action for a few hours is close to zero. If the computer was being used to play games it will be zero. Yeah basically legally your leisure time is worth nothing, if you're a lawyer and write a letter with lots of big wordz and bill them for your time you might just get somewhere, if not no chance Originally by: RedFall How dare you try to argue my point with your so called "evidence". I don't need any, I have truthiness on my side.
Dr Paithos Minmatar Republic Deep Space Institute	Posted - 2007.12.06 21:08:00 - [3] Originally by: Serious Rikk Compensation. Pah, now that is funny. Below is a section from the EULA that everyone had to agree to before they started using Trinity... CCP don't owe anyone anything physical. Sure, they should apologise profusely and repeatedly. And I would have a whole lot more respect for them if they gave those affected GTC's or something Quote: NO WARRANTIES The Software, System, Game and all Game Content, and all other services and material provided in connection therewith, are provided "AS IS," with all faults, and without warranty of any kind. You assume all risk of use and all risk associated with accessing the System and playing the Game. CCP disclaims all warranties, whether express or implied, including without limitation the warranties of merchantability, fitness for particular purpose and non-infringement. There is no warranty against interference with your enjoyment of the Game. CCP does not warrant that the operation of the System or your access to the System, or that your use of the Software, will be uninterrupted or error-free, nor that the System or Software will be compatible with your hardware and software. While CCP attempts to have the System available at most times, CCP does not guarantee that the System will always be available, or that the System will not become unavailable during Game play. The System may become unavailable for a number of reasons, including without limitation during the performance of maintenance to the System, for the implementation of new software, for emergency situations and due to equipment or telecommunications failures. Eh, under UK law you cannot sign away your statutory rights. Anyway, though, it's far more of a waste of time going all INTERNET LAWYER and trying to take foreign companies to court than just sucking it up. Doesn't mean people will be happy though... People do use their home computers for work too, especially if they run a business or work from home. Even someone I know who is really paranoid about disabling his comp that he uses from work still has a few games on it... It's only gonna really seriously affect a minority of a minority but boy will they be **ed. Originally by:** RedFall How dare you try to argue my point with your so called "evidence". I don't need any, I have truthiness on my side.
Dr Paithos Minmatar Republic Deep Space Institute	Posted - 2007.12.06 21:14:00 - [4] Originally by: Hooch Flux Honestly, if they are installing games on the same PC that they use for work stuff then they should have the work stuff backed up, why should CCP pay for their shortcummings? Of course people back stuff up. But their computer still does not work, and they cannot access their data. They have also lost data (hopefully temporarily) that dates from after their last backup. Also, spelling isn't your strong point, no? Originally by: RedFall How dare you try to argue my point with your so called "evidence". I don't need any, I have truthiness on my side.
Dr Paithos Minmatar Republic Deep Space Institute	Posted - 2007.12.06 21:19:00 - [5] Originally by: Hooch Flux Still understood my meaning though, yes? Not really. Is it that it's their fault for doing any work whatsoever on a computer that has any games whatsoever on it? That doesn't fit with what 99% of people do at home, and it wouldn't stand up in court. Originally by: RedFall How dare you try to argue my point with your so called "evidence". I don't need any, I have truthiness on my side.
Dr Paithos Minmatar Republic Deep Space Institute	Posted - 2007.12.06 21:26:00 - [6] Originally by: Hooch Flux Originally by: Dr Paithos Originally by: Hooch Flux Still understood my meaning though, yes? Not really. Is it that it's their fault for doing any work whatsoever on a computer that has any games whatsoever on it? That doesn't fit with what 99% of people do at home, and it wouldn't stand up in court. Frankly, yes it is, they do not have to have games on the same PC! Games are not required, work on the other hand is! So do you have any work, or any personal business documents on your home PC? You don't use it for even internet banking, writing letters to companies, and so on? And you are an adult, right? Originally by: RedFall How dare you try to argue my point with your so called "evidence". I don't need any, I have truthiness on my side.
Dr Paithos Minmatar Republic Deep Space Institute	Posted - 2007.12.06 21:37:00 - [7] Originally by: Andrue Originally by: Modrak Vseth Do NONE of you people have any backups or restore points saved? If it's taking 4 or 5 hours for you to fix this then you were setting yourself up for a massive failure eventually anyway. How does either of those help if you can't boot your computer? I have three computers in my house. I've been developing software for over 15 years. I'm an ex-data recovery engineer (and most of my software development was data recovery tools). Fixing a deleted boot.ini is childs play...except that it turns out I don't have a Windows boot disc. I thought that the Mesh CD was going to do it but it was one of those half-arsed Windows setup discs that doesn't give access to the command line. I eventually burnt a copy of Ubuntu and used that but for a lot of people that's way beyond their ability and/or far too scary. That's why both our comps have floppy drives and boot disks - but I'm not going to flame people for not having them. Not sure if I could find the boot disk for this computer either. That's just how life is. If someone's obsessive enough to cover every angle, well done, have a cookie, but don't spend all your saved free time attacking people who aren't. That might make people think you're unbalanced in some way ahaha The fact is that I agree with Dark Shikari () that this is non-trivial to fix. Originally by: RedFall How dare you try to argue my point with your so called "evidence". I don't need any, I have truthiness on my side.
Dr Paithos Minmatar Republic Deep Space Institute	Posted - 2007.12.06 21:49:00 - [8] Edited by: Dr Paithos on 06/12/2007 21:49:41 Originally by: Xaroth Brook read the last bit... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_on_Contracts_for_the_International_Sale_of_Goods Iceland was a signatory. CCP can't opt out just because their EULA says so. Not sure if the convention applies to EVE though as I cba reading it all someone else please oblige Personally I hope someone sues CCP as it'd be: a) Interesting b) Hilarious Originally by: RedFall How dare you try to argue my point with your so called "evidence". I don't need any, I have truthiness on my side.
Dr Paithos Minmatar Republic Deep Space Institute	Posted - 2007.12.06 21:57:00 - [9] Originally by: Xaroth Brook Originally by: Dr Paithos Edited by: Dr Paithos on 06/12/2007 21:49:41 Originally by: Xaroth Brook read the last bit... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_on_Contracts_for_the_International_Sale_of_Goods Iceland was a signatory. CCP can't opt out just because their EULA says so. Not sure if the convention applies to EVE though as I cba reading it all someone else please oblige Personally I hope someone sues CCP as it'd be: a) Interesting b) Hilarious from that nice CISGW post: Quote: Article 6 The parties may exclude the application of this Convention or, subject to article 12, derogate from or vary the effect of any of its provisions. It also says: Quote: This Convention does not apply to sales: (a) of goods bought for personal, family or household use, unless the seller, at any time before or at the conclusion of the contract, neither knew nor ought to have known that the goods were bought for any such use; So I don't even know why the EULA mentions it at all oh well Originally by: RedFall How dare you try to argue my point with your so called "evidence". I don't need any, I have truthiness on my side.
Dr Paithos Minmatar Republic Deep Space Institute	Posted - 2007.12.06 22:03:00 - [10] Edited by: Dr Paithos on 06/12/2007 22:03:37 Originally by: Quadinaros Nowhere in the EULA you quoted does it state that CCP has a right to trash files that are not part of the game. No one puts a gun to my head to make me go into a Starbucks (although it does take almost that much coercion) but if I go into a Starbucks and the Barista steals my shoes, Starbucks is responsible. I'm not sure that's true, isn't it just theft on her part? I dont see why Starbucks is liable at all. Oh and you should have carried some backup shoes and not used your important shoes to do unimportant things like go to Starbucks BLAMMO Originally by: RedFall How dare you try to argue my point with your so called "evidence". I don't need any, I have truthiness on my side.

Dr Paithos Minmatar Republic Deep Space Institute	Posted - 2007.12.06 22:06:00 - [11] Originally by: Harason Grant You may wonder whether these licenses are legal. Most of them do hold up in court as long as they are reasonably clear, according to Parry Aftab, an attorney specializing in Internet privacy and security law (www.aftab.com). "The courts have said that if you click on something saying 'I agree' then it's legal consent." There are exceptions however. "If it's not legally clear enough, you haven't given consent to anything because there is no meeting of the minds. It goes back to basis of contract law from 500 years ago. You have to both agree on what you are agreeing on." In other words, if the agreement is incomprehensible, it may be unenforceable, according to Afta What I'm not sure about is if you can sign away your statutory rights in a EULA just because the company is based in another country... that's UK law though... Originally by: RedFall How dare you try to argue my point with your so called "evidence". I don't need any, I have truthiness on my side.
Dr Paithos Minmatar Republic Deep Space Institute	Posted - 2007.12.06 22:16:00 - [12] Originally by: Louis DelaBlanche Social Commentary Personally I am varying between sympathy for those affected and schadenfreude I find the whole phenomenon surrounding it hilarious and I'm interested in what the actual legal situation is. I also suspect that there are no actual lawyers playing Eve, instead they're getting paid $100 per hour while getting some coffee. It could be one of those legal areas where no-one knows Originally by: RedFall How dare you try to argue my point with your so called "evidence". I don't need any, I have truthiness on my side.
Dr Paithos Minmatar Republic Deep Space Institute	Posted - 2007.12.06 22:30:00 - [13] Originally by: Crumplecorn There are always going to be some who believe you should know how to use the things you rely on. Though they don't actually all live in basements, though I know how much that thought must make you feel better about yourself. So how are you on the nitrogen cycle or the Haber process or global climate change or your country's transport infrastructure OH GOD YOU RELY SO MUCH ON OTHERS YOU'RE SO WEAK Originally by: RedFall How dare you try to argue my point with your so called "evidence". I don't need any, I have truthiness on my side.
Dr Paithos Minmatar Republic Deep Space Institute	Posted - 2007.12.06 22:34:00 - [14] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Dr Paithos Originally by: Crumplecorn There are always going to be some who believe you should know how to use the things you rely on. Though they don't actually all live in basements, though I know how much that thought must make you feel better about yourself. So how are you on the nitrogen cycle or the Haber process or global climate change or your country's transport infrastructure OH GOD YOU RELY SO MUCH ON OTHERS YOU'RE SO WEAK That faint whooshing sound above your head was my point. Likewise. Even people with a great deal of computer expertise documented how they found the problem difficult to solve. No person can absolutely undertand everything. Originally by: RedFall How dare you try to argue my point with your so called "evidence". I don't need any, I have truthiness on my side.
Dr Paithos Minmatar Republic Deep Space Institute	Posted - 2007.12.06 22:44:00 - [15] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Dr Paithos Even people with a great deal of computer expertise documented how they found the problem difficult to solve. No person can absolutely undertand everything. Of course not. But it seems a large number are well able to blame others for their lack of understanding. It's not reasonable to expect people to have a high level of technical understanding to run a PC, or to play an internet game. It may be helpful, and desirable, but it's not reasonable by the current standards of our culture. Perhaps that is the problem, or perhaps it's the newness of the technology, or perhaps if companies took more liability for harmful software there would be far less of these problems. I don't know. Maybe the EULA for all software should say "I understand I take responsibility for maintaining this software and my machine to a reasonable standard". But what is a reasonable standard? It would be far easier to agree this for e.g. a car than a PC. Eh, I don't really have a point or a punchy flame. You're ALL wrong. Will that do? Originally by: RedFall How dare you try to argue my point with your so called "evidence". I don't need any, I have truthiness on my side.
Dr Paithos Minmatar Republic Deep Space Institute	Posted - 2007.12.07 00:06:00 - [16] Edited by: Dr Paithos on 07/12/2007 00:06:47 Originally by: Zacari Right, so your saying an invoice of repair is proof an issue existed? It could've been any issue caused by any program or user incompetence. The fact that the issue can be solved easily for free, if not by yourself then friends/family/co-workers, means you paying just means you didn't think hard enough and just wanted a no-brain quick fix. Yeah, my insurance company said that to me, it was just a little bit of cancer and if I'd just looked up the correct knowledge on the internet I could have operated on it myself oh welp Quote: Thank you for kittens, glitter, for warm nights in fuzzy blankets... Thank you for dolphins, whales... Thank you for cartoons, for birthdays, for candy and cookies. Thank you CCP!
Dr Paithos Minmatar Republic Deep Space Institute	Posted - 2007.12.07 22:45:00 - [17] Originally by: aelawan Edited by: aelawan on 07/12/2007 20:47:11 it's widely known that cowards use new forum/ingame alts to hide their true identity so they dont have to be put to task for their commentaryor actions on their main identity, and all of them are for ccp on this issue ... it isnt a far stretch to guess WHY they are for ccp. stfu I'm a spineless alt and I've been flaming CCP's ass off stop it with your stereotypes we're all different we're all human CUT ME DO I NOT BLEED Quote: Thank you for kittens, glitter, for warm nights in fuzzy blankets... Thank you for dolphins, whales... Thank you for cartoons, for birthdays, for candy and cookies. Thank you CCP!
Dr Paithos Minmatar Republic Deep Space Institute	Posted - 2007.12.07 23:36:00 - [18] Originally by: Karlemgne Originally by: SiJira can you compensate yourself and unsubcribe so we dont have to hear your stupid whines? go ask compensation from microsoft for windows not working correctly and let me know if you even get a reply Yep, my bad. The game company I pay $45 a month do gave me a "patch" that killed one of my computers. I'm just a whiner. In fact, a couple years ago I got into a car crash when someone ran a red light, and had to sue his insurance company after being in hospital for 2 days (pretty expensive in America.) I knew the risks of driving! I was just being a whiner... I'll remember this forever, caveat emptor is true in all places, all situations, and all times. Companies should never feel liable if there product kills, harms, or destroys property. The buyers should have known better! -Karl To be honest, if their product was a giant killer robot then I guess maybe they shouldn't be liable. Also, that would be awesome. Mmm, giant killer robot. Quote: Thank you for kittens, glitter, for warm nights in fuzzy blankets... Thank you for dolphins, whales... Thank you for cartoons, for birthdays, for candy and cookies. Thank you CCP!

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